(no subject)
Aug. 17th, 2011 02:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
baudownYesterday, I clicked on an SU Herald link titled "Slash vs. Same-sex Pairings." The link can be found at http://su-herald.livejournal.com for Monday, August 15, 2011.
I am a relative newcomer to fandom in general, and to slash in particular. So I was a little surprised about the negativity being expressed regarding slash, although having subsequently poked around, it seems to be pretty common. I responded to the post, but without the benefit of having considered these issues for more than very briefly. So....
...I'd be very interested in hearing people's thoughts about this, if you'd care to share them.
Also, I'd be really interested in hearing what got people into slash in the first place, and why people are drawn to it. I've been thinking about this quite a bit, since I've discovered this interest later rather than sooner in my own life. I know how I got here, and I know some of the reasons it appeals to me, but in a kind of jumbled and incoherent way.
Hope to hear from you!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-08-18 12:19 am (UTC)As for how I got into slash in the first place… I discovered fanfic back in around 2002 at the same time as I discovered Buffy by watching Once More With Feeling. It was love at first sight, and I wanted more. Then I discovered the Television Without Pity boards on Buffy, and there was a fanfic board. It piqued my curiosity because I had no idea what fanfic was. But I found out!
I remember reading a lot of Xander/Willow at the Unfit for Society site, and it suited my taste because at the same time as I was watching the second half of S6 on TV, I was watching borrowed DVD’s of S1 and S2, and Xander/Willow fic seemed logical. But then on the same site I came across a post Lovers’ Walk Xander/Oz story, Finding the Why, by Pete Meillinger. It shocked me, not because of any homophobia, but because the concept of ‘slash’ fic hadn’t occurred to me, and because the premise of the fic took a real left hand turn from canon and made me look at the characters in a whole new way. But once my brain got around the idea, I realised I really wanted to read more. That’s when I found Jane Davitt’s classic Predatory Acts and the sequel Preying on My Mind and I was well and truly hooked.
Why was I hooked? Well, the obvious answer is that they were hot. Oh boy were they hot. But on further analysis, I realised that they’d opened my brain up to the fact that in fanfic you can take the text, the subtext, the whisper of a possibility, or even a complete left hand turn somewhere near Pluto, and as long as the characterisation feels right and the story is well written and constructed, then really there was no limit to what you can do. Up until that realisation, I’d been reading more or less canon pairings, or gen, so that realisation was pretty revelationary.
I love Spike/Xander because it made sense to me that two boys who’d love to be alpha, but in canon weren’t, however much they tried, could come together very logically. And depending on the author, the story and your mood, either could be alpha, or neither of them – it’s all good.
Giles/Xander has grown on me over the years. I have a preference for post Chosen stories, purely because it gets around the icky teacher/pupil underage thing, but there are some great school years based fic in which they get together because it makes sense within the plot that they do. That’s the main thing for me. I love a good PWP when I’m in the mood, but to really sell me the characters, the plot is the thing (as a certain other writer once said!)
So yeah, why do I love slash –because it makes me review canon from another perspective and fall in love with the characters all over again, because it reminds me that these characters have layers, because it made me start writing again after not doing so for over 20 years – oh yeah, and because it’s kind of hot! *g*
I also read het and gen as the mood takes me, but from the day I read that first Xander/Oz fic, slash will always be where I make my fanfic home.
Sorry, I've realised I wrote an essay and have taken up all this room! There are probably lots of other reasons for being drawn to slash that my muddled head can't express right now, so apologies for the general incoherence of the reply! :)
no subject
Date: 2011-08-18 09:21 pm (UTC)I agree that part of the appeal of fanfiction in general is its ability to take a character to so many new places, and have it work, as long as the writing is good and there's an essential honesty about who the character is.
I knew nothing about fandom, or fanfic, or slash, until discovering BtVS, which was not quite two years ago. It took me some time to see Spike/Xander, though.
I originally read Spike/Buffy, because I really longed for more of their relationship and their future together. But the more I watch and think about the show, the more I've come to terms with the way their relationship ends. I actually think the relationship is explored in a pretty complex and complete way, so ultimately, I didn't feel the same need for Spike/Buffy fanfiction, although, who knows? I may well come back to it. The first m/m pairing I read was Spike/Angel, which I was drawn to because it was pretty canon-based, but not fully explored. This led me to some Spike/Wesley and Angel/Wesley and even some Angel/Xander, all of which I liked.
Spike/Xander made no sense to me, until I read Anna S.'s Subtleties, and then I got it. I got it bad, and it stuck. (Although, her writing can sell me on almost any pairing. I read a Spike/Riley story of hers that sold me. Seriously.) Now, Spike/Xander seems so natural to me, it's hard to imagine it ever wasn't.
It's amazing how much fanfiction can change your perspective. It really changed my feelings about Xander. Pre-fanfiction, I liked him, but he was never one of my favorite characters. Fanfiction has made me think about him in a completely different way.
Giles/Xander. Not there yet. Hmmm.
The hotness of slash. Undeniable, but I'm trying to figure out why, for me. Why I find it so hot.
As for the anti-slash post -- I think you were wise to refrain from engaging. I probably should have done the same, but it really annoyed me, and I kept ruminating. Now there seems to be a bit of a to-do going on over there. I am still curious about the level of hostility, though.
no subject
Date: 2011-08-23 12:59 am (UTC)I agree that particular stories can suddenly turn you on to a pairing that up until then would have been unthinkable. Subtleties is brilliant, so I'm not surprised it did it for you. I could never have imagined Xander/Riley, but then I read Song of Iowa by
As for Xander/Giles, I was very 'hmmm' for the longest time. If you do decide to dip your toe in that particular water, may I recommend having a look through my Xander/Giles rec list - you can find all my rec lists here if you haven't come across them before. There's a whole range of stuff there, but if I had to pick one to go with, it would be Act of Nature by jane davitt and wesley's girl, or the divine Dust On His Hands from the Sky by antennapedia. Both are post series and both sell the pairing as not only natural but completely necessary.
I'm rambling again. Like you, since you posted your question I'm been ruminating more on why slash? But I still have no really concrete answer other than I'm in love with these boys. *g*
Oh and while I think on it, I see the other reply mentioned The Sentinel. That fandom is a minefield of great and not so great fic (like any fandom really) but if you want a little taste of it, then try litgal's brilliant BTVS/Sentinel xover, Learning Curve and the sequel Experience Curve. (don't worry that the latter says Learning Curve at the top of the page, it really is the sequel!) If you haven't already come across these, they'll give you a taste of that fandom, but you don't need to know anything about it because we find out about things at the same time as Xander and Spike.
If you've read all those, then ignore me completely!
Happy slashing, hon! :)
no subject
Date: 2011-08-23 01:07 pm (UTC)I discovered your rec list a couple of months ago, and I'm on it all the time. It's a gold mine.
I'm strangely excited to read Song of Iowa.
Oddly, I've stumbled across some Sentinel fic and enjoyed it, even though I've never watched the show. I didn't pursue it, because apparently only Season 1 of the show is on DVD, and I don't want to start it and not be able to finish. I've also read some Stargate Atlantis fic that I liked, although I haven't watched that show. either. But when I read fics and haven't watched the show, I do always feel like I'd enjoy them so much more if I knew the back story. I think about how much I'd be missing if I were reading BtVS/AtS fic without having seen the show. It's hard to imagine it would be understandable.
X/G...still tough for me, but I won't discount it for the future. Hey, I felt that way about S/X, and now look!
If you haven't read Anna S.'s Spike/Riley story, this is it:
http://eliade.livejournal.com/92401.html
I highly recommend it. If you've already read it, good!
no subject
Date: 2011-08-18 10:50 pm (UTC)The word *fiction* says it clearly - it's about your fantasy and imagination, about what you think the characters would do and how they could act. It don't have to be always cannon. It also could be a different story line - and that's what we call *AU*. Or in case of same sex relationships it is *slash*. No matter, if the characters were gay in cannon or not!
Slash could be as good as any other good written fanfiction. Could be drama, could be romance, could be horror - all kind of things.
If you don't like it, don't read it! The writers always give the warnings above the stories.
I am for example don't like *Death*-fictions, were one or more of the main characters die, so I don't read it!
A lot of script writers from tv shows also take a look into the fandoms and the fanfictions there to see what the fans would like to see on the shows from them. Wouldn't be a surprise if some ideas first were in fandoms befor they got on the screen. LOL
In 1996 the show of *Buffy* started on tv. And almost exactly on the same time also an other good show called *The Sentinel* was aired. But I choosed Buffy to watch.
I came to fanfictions in 2003 when there was a re-run from the show *The Sentinel* with Richard Burgi (some will know him from the show *Desperate Housewifes*). He was playing an ex-ranger and now beeing a detective in a big city (They filmed in Vancouver, but it was an american show.). He got a new *partner* and worked and lived with him together. These guys were so different but they matched so perfectly together, it was so close too a lovestory between them. But sadly they canceled the show after only three years.
So I searched for more information about the show, the characters and the actors in the web and found a fanpage from a german girl.
She had done a lot work in creating a good working fandom of her own. I had a lot to read about the show and there were a lot of fanfictions on her page from german writers. All genres and of curse there was slash too. It was so logical that people wrote abut them as a couple if you would *read the subtext* in the show. And the stories were really good written. Most of them were *Case*-stories were they investigated murder or other crimes. But the relationship between them was also a matter of the plot.
After a while I had read a lot of fictions and tried to write a story by myself. Sure, I was afraid it would come out as a disaster, but the other girls were really nice to me and one did the beta for me. - She became my best friend. :-)
Sadly the page wasn't updated since 2008. Mishale had to much to do in real life and so the page counts more as an archive nowadays. But it is still online.
If you like to take a look into it:
http://www.mishale.net/sentinel/
Back in these days there were not so much german writers and so I searched for more fanfictions in englisch. First it was difficult for me to read and understand all of it. But the more I read the more I trained my englisch too and after a while I couldn't tell if I had read a story in german or in englisch if someone asked me about it. LOL
Almost all of my fanfictions are in german (also do translations englisch / german) and most of them are slash, humor or sugar sweet romance. LOL But one or two are sad stories. So I always give warnings above. :-)
Hope it answered your question how I came to slash-fictions. :-)
no subject
Date: 2011-08-19 12:28 am (UTC)I have not watched Sentinel, but it's on my list of things to catch up on. I've been pretty much immersed in the Whedonverse for the last couple of years though. I appreciate the rec for Sentinel fanfic, and will check it out when I watch the show. Do you write in other fandoms?
no subject
Date: 2011-08-19 09:08 am (UTC)http://internetdump.com/users/daltonavon/
Yes I also wrote a few things in other fandoms like BtVS, SG1, SGA, Torchwood, SPN and a few x-overs. Most of them are short ones or WIP (Work In Process).
But I also wrote a few things in englisch for challenges on *whedonland*.
http://whedonland.livejournal.com/
You have to be a member of one of the four teams to work on challenges. I am in TEAM ANGEL (The Fang-Gang LOL).
But you can find them also in my LJ and the translation too.
http://starkat75.livejournal.com/
Or you take a look on my FF-list on the german fanfiction page:
http://fanfic-de.livejournal.com/tag/autor%3A%20starkat%201-100
There are a lot of fandoms too.
Some of my Icons are made by myself or they are pictures from Second Life of the virtual world there or from my avatars. It is fun to creat a picture by yourself. I like drawing (like the one in my Icon above), but sometimes I am not in the moode or I am to lazy to do it. :-)
no subject
Date: 2011-08-19 10:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-08-19 09:39 am (UTC)http://www.youtube.com/user/Cupida75?feature=mhee
Hope you can watch them because in germany youtube is not allowed to show them because of this GEMA thing. :-(
no subject
Date: 2011-09-11 09:02 am (UTC)If you're interested, I stuck it here instead.